Storage for AI Q&A

Our recent SNIA Data, Networking & Storage Forum (DNSF) webinar, “AI Storage: The Critical Role of Storage in Optimizing AI Training Workloads,” was an insightful look at how AI workloads interact with storage at every stage of the AI data pipeline with a focus on data loading and checkpointing. Attendees gave this session a 5-star rating and asked a lot of wonderful questions. Our presenter, Ugur Kaynar, has answered them here. We’d love to hear your questions or feedback in the comments field.

Q. Great content on File and Object Storage, Are there any use cases for Block Storage in AI infrastructure requirements?

A. Today, by default, AI frameworks cannot directly access block storage, and need a file system to interact with block storage during training. Block storage provides raw storage capacity, but it lacks the structure needed to manage files and directories. Like most AI frameworks, PyTorch depends on a file system to manage and access data stored on block storage.

Q. Do high speed networks make some significant enhancements to I/O and checkpointing process?

A. High-speed networks enable faster data transfer rates and the I/O bandwidth can be better utilized which can significantly reduce the time required to save checkpoints. This minimizes downtime and helps maintain system performance.

However, it is important to keep in mind that the performance of checkpointing depends on both the storage network and the storage system. It’s essential to maintain a balance between the two for optimal results.

If the network is fast but the storage system is slow, or vice versa, the slower component will create a bottleneck. This imbalance can lead to inefficiencies and longer checkpointing times. When both the network and storage systems are balanced, data can flow smoothly between them. This maximizes throughput, ensuring that data is written to storage as quickly as it is transferred over the network.

 Q. What is the rule of thumb or range of storage throughput per GPU?

A. Please see answer below.

Q. What is the typical IO performance requirements for AI training in terms of IOs per second, bytes per second? Read More

Object Storage: Got Questions?

Over 900 people (and counting) have watched our SNIA Networking Storage Forum (NSF) webcast, “Object Storage: Trends, Use Cases” where our expert panelist had a lively discussion on object storage characteristics, use cases and performance acceleration. If you have not seen this session yet, we encourage you to check it out on-demand. The conversation included several interesting questions related to object storage. As promised, here are answers to them:

Q: Today object storage allows many new capabilities but also new challenges, such as the need for geographic and local load balancers in a distributed scale out infrastructure that at the same time do not become the bottleneck of the object services at an unsustainable cost. Are there any solutions available today that have these features built in?

A: Some object storage solutions have features such as load balancing and geographic distribution built into the software, though often the storage administrator must manually configure parts of these features at the network and/or server level. Most object storage cloud (StaaS) implementations include a distributed, scale-out infrastructure (including load balancing) in their implementation.

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Keeping Pace with Object Storage Trends & Use Cases

Object storage has been among the most popular topics we’ve covered in the SNIA Networking Storage Forum. On November 16, 2021, we will take this topic on again at our live webcast “Object Storage: Trends, Use Cases.” Moving beyond the mechanics of object storage, our experts panel will focus on recent object storage trends, problems object storage can solve, and real-world use cases including ransomware protection.

So, what’s new? Object storage has traditionally been seen as an archival storage platform, and is now being employed as a platform for primary data. In this webcast, we’ll highlight how this is happening and discuss:

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Understanding the NVMe Key-Value Standard

The storage industry has many applications that rely on storing data as objects. In fact, it’s the most popular way that unstructured data—for example photos, videos, and archived messages–is accessed.

At the drive level, however, the devil is in the details. Normally, storage devices like drives or storage systems store information as blocks, not objects. This means that there is some translation that goes on between the data as it is ingested or consumed (i.e., objects) and the data that is stored (i.e., blocks).

Naturally, storing objects from applications as objects on storage would be more efficient and means that there are performance boosts, and simplicity means that there are fewer things that can go wrong. Moving towards storing key value pairs that get away from the traditional block storage paradigm makes it easier and simpler to access objects. But nobody wants a marketplace where each storage vendor has their own key value API.

Both the NVM Express™ group and SNIA have done quite a bit of work in standardizing this approach:

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Object Storage Questions: Asked and Answered

Last month, the SNIA Networking Storage Forum (NSF) hosted a live webcast, “Object Storage: What, How and Why.” As the title suggests, our NSF members and invited guest experts delivered foundational knowledge on object storage, explaining how object storage works, use cases, and standards. They even shared a little history on how object storage originated.  If you missed the live event, you can watch the on-demand webcast or find it on our SNIAVideo YouTube Channel.  

We received some great questions from our live audience. As promised, here are the answers to them all.

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Why Object Storage is Important

Object storage is a secure, simple, scalable, and cost-effective means of embracing the explosive growth of unstructured data enterprises generate every day. Object storage adoption is on the rise. That’s why the SNIA Networking Storage Forum (NSF) is hosting “Object Storage: What, How and Why.”  This webcast, with experts Chris Evans of Bookend LTD, Rick Vanover of Veeam, and Alex McDonald, Vice Chair of SNIA NSF and NetApp, the will explain how object storage works, its benefits and why it’s important.

Like other storage technologies, object storage brings its own set of unique characteristics to the market. Join us on February 19th at 10:00 am PT/1:00 pm ET to learn:

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What Does Software Defined Storage Means for Storage Networking?

Software defined storage (SDS) is growing in popularity in both cloud and enterprise accounts. But why is it appealing to some customers and what is the impact on storage networking? Find out at our SNIA Networking Storage Forum webcast on October 22, 2019 “What Software Defined Storage Means for Storage Networking” where our experts will discuss:

  • What makes SDS different from traditional storage arrays?
  • Does SDS have different networking requirements than traditional storage appliances?
  • Does SDS really save money?
  • Does SDS support block, file and object storage access?
  • How data availability is managed in SDS vs. traditional storage
  • What are potential issues when deploying SDS?

Register today to save your spot on Oct. 22nd.   This event is live, so as always, our SNIA experts will be on-hand to answer your questions.

We’re Debating Again: Centralized vs. Distributed Storage

We hope you’ve been following the SNIA Ethernet Storage Forum (ESF) “Great Storage Debates” webcast series. We’ve done four so far and they have been incredibly popular with 4,000 live and on-demand views to date and counting. Check out the links to all of them at the end of this blog.

Although we have “versus” in the title of these presentations, the goal of this series is not to have a winner emerge, but rather provide a “compare and contrast” that educates attendees on how the technologies work, the advantages of each, and to explore common use cases.

That’s exactly what we plan to do on September 11, 2018 when we host “Centralized vs. Distributed Storage.” In the history of enterprise storage there has been a trend to move from local storage to centralized, networked storage. Customers found that networked storage provided higher utilization, centralized and hence cheaper management, easier failover, and simplified data protection amongst many advantages, which drove the move to FC-SAN, iSCSI, NAS and object storage.

Recently, however, distributed storage has become more popular where storage lives in multiple locations, but can still be shared over a LAN (Local Area Network) and/or WAN (Wide Area Network). The advantages of distributed storage include the ability to scale out capacity. Conversely, in the hyperconverged use case, enterprises can use each node for both compute and storage, and scale-up as more resources are needed.

What does this all mean?

Register for this live webcast to find out, where my ESF colleagues and I will discuss:

  • Pros and cons of centralized vs. distributed storage
  • Typical use cases for centralized and distributed storage
  • How SAN, NAS, parallel file systems, and object storage fit in these different environments
  • How hyperconverged has introduced a new way of consuming storage

It’s sure to be another un-biased, vendor-neutral look at a storage topic many are debating within their own organizations. I hope you’ll join us on September 11th. In the meantime, I encourage you to watch our on-demand debates:

Learn about the work SNIA is doing to lead the storage industry worldwide in developing and promoting vendor-neutral architectures, standards, and educational services that facilitate the efficient management, movement, and security of information by visiting snia.org.

 

 

File, Block and Object Storage: Real-world Questions, Expert Answers

More than 1,200 people have already watched our Ethernet Storage Forum (ESF) Great Storage Debate webcast “File vs. Block vs. Object Storage.” If you haven’t seen it yet, it’s available on demand. This great debate generated many interesting questions. As promised, our experts have answered them all here.

Q. What about the encryption technologies on file storage? Do they exist, and how do they affect the performance compared to unencrypted storage?

A. Yes, encryption of file data at rest can be done by the storage software, operating system, or the drives themselves (self-encrypting drives). Encryption of file data on the wire can be done by the storage software, OS, or specialized network cards. These methods can usually also be applied to block and object storage. Encryption requires processing power so if it’s done by the main CPU it might affect performance. If encryption is offloaded to the HBA, drive, or SmartNIC then it might not affect performance.

Q. Regarding block size, I thought that block size settings were also used to tune and optimize file protocol transfer, for example in NFS, am I wrong?

A. That is correct, block size refers to the size of data in each I/O and can be applied to block, file and object storage, though it may not be used very often for object storage. NFS and SMB both let you specific block I/O size.

Q. What is the main difference between object and file? Is it true that File has a hierarchical structure, while object does not?

A. Yes that is one important difference. Another difference is the access method–folder/file/offset for files and key-value for objects.   File storage also often allows access to specific data within a file and in many cases shared writes to the same file, while object storage typically offers only shared reads and most object storage systems do not allow direct updates to existing objects.

Q. What is the best way to backup a local Object store system?

A. Most object storage systems have built-in data protection using either replication or erasure coding which often replicates the data to one or more remote locations. If you deploy local object storage that does not include any remote replication or erasure coding protection, you should implement some other form of backup or replication, perhaps at the hardware or operating system level.

Q. I feel that this discussion conflates object storage with cloud storage features, and presumes certain cloud features (for example security) that are not universally available or really part of Object Storage.   This is a very common problem with discussions of objects — they typically become descriptions of one vendor’s cloud features.

A. Cloud storage can be block, file, and/or object, though object storage is perhaps more popular in public and private cloud than it is in non-cloud environments. Security can be required and deployed in both enterprise and cloud storage environments, and for block, file and object storage. It was not the intention of this webinar to conflate cloud and object storage; we leave that to the SNIA Cloud Storage Initiative (CSI).

Q. How do open source block, file and object storage products play into the equation?

A. Open source software solutions are available for block, file and object storage. As is usually the case with other open-source, these solutions typically make storage (block, file or object) available at a lower acquisition cost than commercial storage software or appliances, but at the cost of higher complexity and higher integration/support effort by the end user. Thus customers who care most about simplicity and minimizing their integration/support work tend to buy commercial appliances or storage software, while large customers who have enough staff to do their own storage integration, testing and support may prefer open-source solutions so they don’t have to pay software license fees.

Q. How is data [0s and 1s in hard disk] converted to objects or vice versa?

A. In the beginning there were electrons, with conductors, insulators, and semi-conductors (we skipped the quantum physics level of explanation). Then there were chip companies, storage companies, and networking companies. Then The Storage Networking Industry Association (SNIA) came along… The short answer is some software (running in the storage server, storage device, or the cloud) organizes the 0s and 1s into objects stored in a file system or object store. The software makes these objects (full of 0s and 1s) available via a key-value systems and/or a RESTful API. You submit data (stream of 1s and 0s) and get a key-value in return. Or you submit a key-value and get the object (stream of 1s and 0s) in return.

Q. What is the difference (from an operating system perspective where the file/object resides) between a file in mounted NFS drive and object in, for example Google drive? Isn’t object storage (under the hood) just network file system with rest API access?

A. Correct–under the hood there are often similarities between file and object storage. Some object storage systems store the underlying data as file and some file storage systems store the underlying data as objects. However, customers and applications usually just care about the access method, performance, and reliability/availability, not the underlying storage method.

Q. I’ve heard that an Achilles’ Heel of Object is that if you lose the name/handle, then the object is essentially lost.   If true, are there ways to mitigate this risk?

A. If you lose the name/handle or key-value, then you cannot access the object, but most solutions using object storage keep redundant copies of the name/handle to avoid this. In addition, many object storage systems also store metadata about each object and let you search the metadata, so if you lose the name/handle you can regain access to the object by searching the metadata.

Q. Why don’t you mention concepts like time to first byte for object storage performance?

A. Time to first byte is an important performance metric for some applications and that can be true for block, file, and object storage. When using object storage, an application that is streaming out the object (like online video streaming) or processing the object linearly from beginning to end might really care about time to first byte. But an application that needs to work on the entire object might care more about time to load/copy the entire object instead of time to first byte.

Q. Could you describe how storage supports data temperatures?

A. Data temperatures describe how often data is accessed, where “hot” data is accessed often, “warm” data occasionally, and “cold” data rarely. A storage system can tier data so the hottest data is on the fastest storage while the coldest data is on the least expensive (and presumably slowest) storage. This could mean using block storage for the hot data, file storage for the warm data, and object storage for the cold data, but that is just one option. For example, block storage could be for cold data while file storage is for hot data, or you could have three tiers of file storage.

Q. Fibre channel uses SCSI. Does NVMe over Fibre Channel use SCSI too? That would diminish NVMe performance greatly.

A. NVMe over Fabrics over Fibre Channel does not use the Fibre Channel Protocol (FCP) and does not use SCSI. It runs the NVMe protocol over a FC-NVMe transport on top of the physical Fibre Channel network.   In fact none of the NVMe over Fabrics options use SCSI.

Q. I get confused when some one says block size for block storage, also block size for NFS storage and object storage as well. Does block size means different for different storage type?

A. In this case “block size” refers to the size of the data access and it can apply to block, file, or object storage. You can use 4KB “block size” to access file data in 4KB chunks, even though you’re accessing it through a folder/file/offset combination instead of a logical block address. Some implementations may limit which block sizes you can use. Object storage tends to use larger block sizes (128KB, 1MB, 4MB, etc.) than block storage, but this is not required.

Q. One could argue that file system is not really a good match for big data. Would you agree?

A. It depends on the type of big data and the access patterns. Big data that consists of large SQL databases might work better on block storage if low latency is the most important criteria. Big data that consists of very large video or image files might be easiest to manage and protect on object storage. And big data for Hadoop or some machine learning applications might work best on file storage.

Q. It is my understanding that the unit for both File Storage & Object storage is File – so what is the key/fundamental difference between the two?

A. The unit for file storage is a file (folder/file/offset or directory/file/offset) and the unit for object storage is an object (key-value or object name). They are similar but not identical. For example file storage usually allows shared reads and writes to the same file, while object storage usually allows shared reads but not shared writes to the object. In fact many object storage systems do not allow any writes or updates to the middle of an object–they either allow only appends to the end of the object or don’t allow any changes to an object at all once it has been created.

Q. Why is key value store more efficient and less costly for PCIe SSD? Can you please expand?

A. If the SSD supports key-value storage directly, then the applications or storage servers don’t have to perform the key-value translation. They simply submit the key value and then write or read the related data directly from the SSDs. This reduces the cost of the servers and software that would otherwise have to manage the key-value translations, and could also increase object storage performance. (Key-value storage is not inherently more efficient for PCIe SSDs than for other types of SSDs.)

Interested in more SNIA ESF Great Storage Debates? Check out:

If you have an idea for another storage debate, let us know by commenting on this blog. Happy debating!

File vs. Block vs. Object Storage – Are Worlds Colliding?

When it comes to storage, a byte is a byte is a byte, isn’t it?

One of the enduring truths about simplicity is that scale makes everything hard, and with that comes complexity. And when we’re not processing the data, how do we store it and access it?

The only way to manage large quantities of data is to make it addressable in larger pieces, above the byte level. For that, we’ve designed sets of data management protocols that help us do several things: address large lumps of data by some kind of name or handle, organize it for storage on external storage devices with different characteristics, and provide protocols that allow us to programmatically write, find, and read it.

On April 17th, the SNIA Ethernet Storage Forum will host another of its “Great Debates” webcasts. This time, it’s “File vs. Block vs. Object Storage.” In this live webcast, our experts, Mark Carlson, Alex McDonald and Saqib Jang will compare three types of data organization: file, block and object storage, and the access methods that support them. Each has its own set of use cases, advantages and disadvantages. Each provides data management ranging from simple to sophisticated, and each makes different demands on storage devices and programming technologies.

Perhaps you’re comfortable with block and file, but are interested in investigating the more recent class of object storage and access. Perhaps you’re happy with your understanding of objects, but would really like to understand files a bit better. Or perhaps you want to understand how file, block and object are implemented on the underlying storage systems – and how one can be made to look like the other, depending on how the storage is accessed. Join us as we discuss and debate:

  • Storage devices
    • How different types of storage drive different management & access solutions
    • Which use cases tend to favor block, file or object
  • Block
    • Where everything is in fixed-size chunks
    • SCSI and SCSI-based protocols, and how FC and iSCSI fit in
  • Files
    • When everything is a stream of bytes
    • NFS and SMB
  • Objects
    • When everything is a BLOB
    • HTTP, key value and RESTful interfaces
  • Altogether…
    • When files, blocks and objects collide, it will rock your world!

I will be moderating this “friendly debate” where there won’t be winners or losers, just more information on these three popular data storage technologies. We hope you will register today to come join the debate on April 17th.

And if you missed our first hugely popular “Great Debate” – Fibre Channel vs. iSCSI, it’s now available on-demand.